Sunday was an … interesting day. I woke up, went out to get some bagels, came home, and sat down to read the newspaper, Facebook, and Twitter (not necessarily in that order). Things went downhill from there. Way, way downhill. Go back and read the title to this post and you’ll see why. Explanations to come.
There is a gentleman that I follow on Twitter and with whom I’ve engaged numerous times in the past. He posts primarily on domestic policy issues from a fairly far left perspective and is often quite harsh in his responses to those on the right. Sometimes I wish he’d tone it down and engage in a more deliberative discussion, but he’s chosen the method by which he chooses to express his views. And I’d say that I probably agree with those views, in whole or in part, the vast majority of the time. I don’t always agree with his methods or the way he expresses his views, but generally agree with the core of the viewpoint. He frequently expresses frustration or exasperation at those who won’t engage in discussion.
About 10 days ago he posted a tweet that had an anti-Israel viewpoint. Rather than trying to engage publicly, especially in a platform like Twitter that is highly unsuited for detailed discussions of complicated issues, I sent him a direct message that said, in part, “I’d love the opportunity to discuss the issues with you, but 140 characters at a time with others chiming in isn’t a great way to have such a discussion.”
He didn’t respond.
The next day, he tweeted about Israel again, this time referring to Israel as “bloodthirsty warmongers”. I responded, again privately, to ask why he wouldn’t discuss the issues.
He didn’t respond.
And then Sunday morning, he was back at it. Perhaps foolishly, perhaps because of the excesses that I’d been seeing over the last few days, I decided to try to engage him both publicly and/or privately, though my initial response was, all you’ll see, quite limited and was designed to elicit discussion of a single, particular issue. I sent him a third private message to which he didn’t respond. But my public tweet? Yeah, that got his attention. And things went downhill from there. Fast. After a while, I chose to leave the conversation; it had become clear that people weren’t interested in actually discussing issues, the invective was getting uglier and worse, and I was getting depressed. Plus, I wanted to extricate myself from the situation before I lost my temper or really let fly some of the things that I was thinking. But even after I bid farewell (in an overly snarky way…), the thread continued and continued to get uglier and uglier.
Below is the Twitter thread from Sunday through Monday afternoon. Unfortunately, when I try to embed tweets to show in a nice format, something goes … um … wrong, and they don’t display at all. At first it was just the two of us (Me and Middle Class Warrior), but before too long, others joined in (and the retweets and favorites began to fly and they’re still coming 48 hours later). Unfortunately, the thread can sometimes be difficult to read as tweets were coming fast and furious and aren’t always in response to the immediately preceding tweet. To try to make it a bit more reader-friendly, I’ve omitted the internal links to other Twitter handles, but I’ve largely kept misspellings as they were (and I’m sure I’ve added a few of my own in transcribing this thread). I’ve also decided not to include actual Twitter handles or links. I’ve occasionally added notes (in [brackets]) for a few posts to add necessary context or to provide a bit of information where I felt it appropriate. Finally, I’ve put a few of the most … um … “interesting” tweets in red and the most extreme tweets in bold green.
Middle Class Warrior: “Nightmare in #Gaza: At Least 50 Reportedly Dead, Bodies Strewn In Streets” 75% are civilian. #Israel’s over kill is monstrous
Me: Worth noting that Hamas instructs people to refer to all casualties as being “civilian”. http://t.co/pS876YuonM
Middle Class Warrior: fuck em all, barbarians on both sides
Me: So trying to stop indiscriminate rocket fire is barbaric? What should Israel do? Nothing?
Middle Class Warrior: over kill dude, overkill, they are barbaric, disgusting and they SHOULD know better, but no, they dehumanize Palestinians
Me: “Barbaric” & “disgusting”? Listen to yourself. Oh, and this: http://t.co/rg7K6Zsn5x
Me: To clarify, who should know better? Israel or Hamas? Or do your standards only apply to one side?
Me: How does Israrl [sic] “dehumanize”? By accepting ceasefire a [sic] that Hamas ejects [sic] or violates. [Grr. I hate typos. Why doesn’t Twitter have an Edit button?]
Middle Class Warrior: Yep, Israel’s mass slaughter is barbaric. Kill ratio of over 100 to 1 year after year. and proclaim THEY are the victims.
Me: By treating Palestinians in Israeli hospitals? Or by protecting its people while Hamas used its as human shields?
Middle Class Warrior: by willingly killing civilians by the score, pox on both their houses.
Me: Now it’s a “mass slaughter”? If Hamas stopped firing rockets, Israel would have no need to defend itself.
Middle Class Warrior: Take ppl land, pin them up, take away rights oppress w/military &they will do what? Yeah, fight back, duh. Israel is root cause
Me: If Hamas built infrastructure instead of weapons & tunnels, they could have a functions [sic] state.
Middle Class Warrior: So how many Israelis have been killed by those rockets? Over 50 civilian Palestinians killed LAST NIGHT
Me: Israel left Gaza in 2005. No blockade. Not “pinned up”. Then Hamas took over & created a terror regime.
Middle Class Warrior: Maybe if they weren’t pinned up and treated like animals… but no, gotta have an eye for an eye… well 200 eyes for 1 eye
Me: Oh, and “rights”? Really. Compare rights in any Arab or Muslim nation to rights in Israel.
Me: Does Gaza have free press, free speech, independent judiciary, LGBT rights, freedom of religion? Blame Hamas.
woodswalked: & those rockets have been landing IN GAZA- so Israel’s ‘self-defense’ argument is even more flaccid
Middle Class Warrior: Well u r an Israel apologist, not exactly neutral or see things thru others eyes. I can, both sides are at fault and barbaric
Jet (James E Tramel): Good question and where are the rocket sites, where is the evidence or is just a GOP style bullshit party
Me: Apologist? No. I’m a supporter and I use independent judgment. I criticize where appropriate.
Middle Class Warrior: Play all the pedantic word games u want, Israel has as much culpability as Hamas, they created the backlash by taking their land
Me: Oh, I see. Not enough dead Jews for you. Sorry that Israel protects it’s own while Hamas uses it’s [sic] people as shields.
Middle Class Warrior: Hard right wants war, Bibi is hard right. Israel needs to stop slaughtering civilians if they want peace… but no
Me: You yell & scream at RWNJs who won’t discuss. But when pushed by someone in the left you cry “word games!” [RWNJ is an acronym for “right wing nut job”]
Middle Class Warrior: “Past-president of Indianapolis Jewish Community Relations Council” oh no, no partisanship there at all…
Me: If your daughter had 15 seconds to seek shelter every so often because terrorists where shooting rockets, you’d defend her.
Susan John-Richards: Under International Law Gaza is not a state & still under occupation and siege 4 over 7years, without an army……
[I’ll offer a brief discussion of Susan John-Richards in a footnote to this blog; just keep in mind that she is a former elected official in the UK, claims to be Jewish, half-Jewish, and an atheist, and eventually links to a 9/11 truther website that wants to defeat the “World Criminal Jewish Empire and end their dream of the eventual enslavement of the Human Race”. Unfortunately, I didn’t know any of that while I was initial communicating with her.]
Middle Class Warrior: Discuss what? u r Israel apologist and incapable of seeing the Palestinian side, so pound sand .. and pox on both their houses
Me: No, Gaza is not under occupation. Israel left in 2005.
Middle Class Warrior: oh no, Israel is peaceful… well if u excuse all the innocents they slaughter… and ppl they pen up…
Me: That’s funny. You know nothing about me other than that I’m Jewish. You have no idea what I do with regard to Palestinians.
Middle Class Warrior: I sure as hell wouldn’t freak out and kill innocents by the score
Middle Class Warrior: I can read your words, that is what I am reacting to, duh Thought the “You don’t know me” excuse when out in the 90’s
Me: No. You’re reading only a tiny bit & making your own inferences. But that’s fine. I’m just a Jew, so stereotype away.
Susan John-Richards: How could you say Israel left in 2005? when they are sounded from every corner and can’t leave¬ allowed 2progress
Middle Class Warrior: yawn, pedantic word game away, apologist
Me: They did leave. It’s fact. But Hamas created a terror infrastructure so Egypt & Israel had to stop weapon flow.
Susan John-Richards: And calling itself the most democratic country in the world.. That is disgraceful….
Roger Rubin: ZG [ZG is “ZeitgestGhost”, the Twitter handle for Middle Class Warrior] ur wrong. Gaza was Egypt. Taken by Isr. Retrnd to Fatah who was kicked out by Hamas. And then rkts start.
Me: You’re a sick piece of work. So go back to your TV and resume cheering for more Jews to die.
Middle Class Warrior: So what would one expect a ppl whose land was stolen to do? Get pinned up and like it?
Joan Evans: Try being a Jew for awhile, living in Israel…
Middle Class Warrior: i’m talking Israel in general, Israel was made out of Palestinian land
Susan John-Richards: R you mocking Michael? When the zionist & Mubarak decided 2 put the siege they even calculated their foodcalories
Middle Class Warrior: go make excuses for slaughtering penned up ppl somewhere else
Middle Class Warrior: Try being a Palestinian living in terror of Israel’s over kill
Susan John-Richards: that’s what they expect… just lay down and die my friend…..
Middle Class Warrior: I’m 100% disgusted by the Israel Palestinian situation. Both are barbaric, but Israel IS the root cause
Maggy: Incorrect… [in response to my tweet that Israel left Gaza in 2005]
Me: Israel left new greenhouses for farming. Palestinians smashed them. No need for blockade if no weapon smuggling.
Susan John-Richards: I agree with you. But if you put a kitten in a corner and terrorise it eventually it will scratch you….
Me: So Jews should do what exactly? Go back to Auschwitz? Maybe drown themselves in the sea? You’d like that, huh?
Joan Evans: You better read your history before mouthing off! You’re just wrong & biased
Middle Class Warrior: I don’t condone Palestinian violence, but i sure do understand it. The kill ratio is disgustingly lopsided
Susan John-Richards: Oh give me a break Michael,the siege & the metal wall built around Gaza,by Egypt funded by US b4 any smuggling !
Middle Class Warrior: stop mass slaughtering ppl while claiming to be the victim would be a start
Middle Class Warrior: he’s completely blinded by his loyalty to Israel
Me: Anti-Israel folk don’t care about historical accuracy. More & more they only care about seeing more dead Jews.
Me: Oops. Forgot the need to prevent suicide bombers from blowing up pizza parlors & Passover Seders. My bad.
Aaron Fisher: Imagine how Texans would react if Mexico occupied Texas for 47 years
Middle Class Warrior: I’m not anti-Semitic, i do find Israel’s one-sided wars barbaric and their existence IS the root cause of violence
Susan John-Richards: NoNo Michael don’t mix Jews with Zionist. Jews always lived in harmony in Arab Countries. why not 2state solution
Roger Rubin: Tell me where I’m wrong.
Me: Again, you know nothing about the full scope of my views. But supporting Israel is evil enough for you.
woodswalked: also… Palestinians are Semitic…
Susan John-Richards: Crying wolf that there are victims because they are poor nation sounded by Arabs… Arab countries r on fire, thx2US
Middle Class Warrior: in your mind maybe… face it Israel is the root cause of it’s own problems
Aaron Fisher: Typical RWNJ response. Any criticism of Israeli policy is anti-Semitism.
Susan John-Richards: True… It is just education and brain wash from being little….Sad
Me: So Israel shouldn’t exist? Got it. I’ll call Bibi & tell him a non anti-Semite thinks Jews should just leave.
Me: Fo [sic] you really believe that? Really funny. Ah, but who cares about history. [In response to Susan John-Richards’ claim that “Jews always lived in harmony in Arab Countries”]
Middle Class Warrior: I said that where? Oh wait, i disagree so I’m anti-Semitic… yawn
Susan John-Richards: I think Michael you watch too much MSM try to watch independent media and investigative journalism….
Susan John-Richards: I am the same, I love all nations and respect all religions without any difference, apart from the truth…
Me: Dumbest argument ever. The term “anti-Semite” was coined to mean “Jew hater”.
Roger Rubin: Since thr was no response read this http://t.co/BSpasb2CPc
Middle Class Warrior: If u look at the history of Palestinian, u would feel empathy for them, they had land stolen and pinned up
Middle Class Warrior: by either definition i’m not one
Susan John-Richards: Michael you are entitled to your opinions but don’t let it blind uof seeing the truth and suffering of other side
Me: Not at all. I’m often critical. But some criticism cross a kind [sic]. Oh, and calling me a RWNJ is rich. [I had to laugh at this given that Rush Limbaugh has called me a “Democrat fundraiser, operative, hack, or what have you” and a “wacko”; and yes, that’s me Limbaugh is talking about]
Roger Rubin: Having a point of view is not bias
Susan John-Richards: Sadly they are cousins…… [in response to the tweet that Palestinians are Semitic]
Scone_Mason: anytime you start a sentence with “I’m not anti …” You should probably stop there
Susan John-Richards: It wouldn’t of killed Israel if they choose 2 state solution and live in peace together????
Susan John-Richards: :))))) [in response to Middle Class Warrior’s tweet where he argues that I said that disagreement meant he was anti-Semitic]
Aaron Fisher: You response to “both sides are barbaric” was should Jews “go back to Auschwitz.” That’s a RWNJ.
Me: Now I’m brainwashed? Excellent. Glad you’ve helped diagnose. Thanks.
Susan John-Richards: So Michael you believe in the distorted history???
Me: You said Israel’s existence is the root of the problem.
woodswalked: glad you realize your argument is dumb, but that still doesn’t excuse it. Genocide is wrong
Me: Again, you have no clue what I watch or read.
Middle Class Warrior: Yes, the existence of Israel is what is causing the tension, that says they shouldn’t exist where?
Susan John-Richards: I yet to meet anybody who ever said they hate Jews.. people dislike Zionism = expansionist
Susan John-Richards: Jews out of the all people in the world should feel compassion with palatines, for the horrible tragedy happened
Middle Class Warrior: that’s what i can;t wrap my head around, how can Jews oppress ppl and pen them up in ghettos ?
Misspell: Imma leave this here… http://t.co/xm45GLw4tq
woodswalked: I live in a red state, sadly there are people who hate Jews. NOT THE ISSUE HERE. genocide is wrong
Susan John-Richards: How did you arrive at this conclusion and what does it mean exactly [in response to the tweet from Scone_Mason saying: “anytime you start a sentence with ‘I’m not anti …’ You should probably stop there”]
Me: Clarification: Gaza part of 1947 land for Palestinians. Captured by Egypt in ‘48 as West Bank taken by Jordan.
Jet (James E Tramel): In evangelical churches you were taught to stand with Israel, fine but is there a point to not aprove
woodswalked: if you are killing innocent children on land you invaded… using the excuse that someone somewhere..
Just me: religion, land, superiority… earliest disputes in history of man…ALL with bad outcomes..
Susan John-Richards: Michael, Better than brainwashing is intelligent thinking and objectivity….
Awesome: how can Blacks discriminate against gays or others when they are still discriminated against
Me: And how do you know I have no sympathy? Is that a “fact” you know? http://blog.wallack.us/ [I was linking to my recent blog posts, one of which notes that “I have enormous sympathy for innocent civilians killed, whether in Gaza or Israel (or Syria, Congo, Myanmar, or the ever-more bloody streets of Indianapolis), whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Druze, or any other religious or ethnic group[;] I yearn for a peaceful resolution to conflicts that have taken far too many lives and caused far too much devastation all across the world” and another of which includes two items wherein I condemned the reprisal attack on the Palestinian boy following the kidnap and murder of the three Israeli boys]
Awesome: folks brains are fucked up!
Susan John-Richards: Auschwitz happened and will never ever happen again… so all is safe.
Jet (James E Tramel): there should be room to disapprove of an action and not hate a Nation,
woodswalked: hates you is is both insincere and self-fulfilling dishonesty
Me: They’ve tried. Palestinians keep walking away from deals. Ask Clinton.
Me: Is saying Israel shouldn’t exist anti-Semitic? I’d say yes.
Susan John-Richards: Israel existence is the root of the problem and you need to thank GB. Jews, Christians & Muslims lived together
Me: You’re funny [in response to Aaron Fisher saying that my querying whether Jews should go back to Auschwitz makes me a RWNJ]
Jet (James E Tramel): We have seen Israel & Hamas thwart Peace talks, New settlement killing efforts of peace
Middle Class Warrior: and who said that? maybe if u didn’t make shit u…
Me: I believe in accurate history.
BrazenlyLiberal: Giving Jews thr own state after WWII ws good. BUT that particular land wasn’t ours to give. SHB Texas
Me: Genocide? Really? Do you even know what that even means?
Middle Class Warrior: You’re funny [in response to my statement that I believe in accurate history]
Susan John-Richards: Jet why are u taught to stand with Israel? What about humanity? don’t they teach you that?
Middle Class Warrior: stealing a ppls land and pinning them up is what?
Scone_Mason: it just reminded me of a phrase you hear often in the south—I’m not prejudiced, but…
Susan John-Richards: You are right “just me” well said
woodswalked: Yep. Ever read Daniel Jonah Goldhagen?
Susan John-Richards: I take ur point, again not really the blacks, its their corrupt governments…
Just me: War in the middle east? Where’s GORT when you need him [picture omitted]
Me: No, we Jews are taught to oppress & murder. Haven’t you read the Protocols, yet. </sarcasm>
Susan John-Richards: I hope Michael ur heart is on the right side & I am sure u can be objective enough to see truth even if it hurts
Middle Class Warrior: may not have been taught, but u do describe what they do… [in response to my sarcastic comment about Jews being taught to oppress & murder; and that is when I decided it was time to extricate myself from the “conversation”]
Susan John-Richards: Jet n our world there should be no place for hat or discrimination at all… only peace & Love
Me: Right. Not anti-Semitic to agree that Jews oppress & murder. Noted.
CyraH: It has nothing to do with WWII, but everything with WWI !
Susan John-Richards: Michael the 1st basis of negotiation is equivalent powers, How a powerful negotiate with a broken nation?
CyraH: Check the Balfour declaration –> http://t.co/SU4UnyUm3m
Middle Class Warrior: deny what Israel do all u want, makes no difference. they have sooo much blood on their hands
Susan John-Richards: Michael can you give me an academic definition of your conclusion re-Israel existence????
Middle Class Warrior: UK drawing lines is behind much of today’s tensions (dismantling Brit & Ottoman empire)
Susan John-Richards: Jet how can you have justice in peace negotiation, when one military might & other starving
Susan John-Richards: If i only know what is your accurate history???
Me: It’s been fun, but I have to take the kids to the World Oppression & Murder Committee meeting. </sarcasm>
Susan John-Richards: Brazenly, THANK YOU, you summed it up…
CyraH: You’re right.
Middle Class Warrior: facts are facts. If u think Palestinians haven’t been oppressed or murdered, u r part of the problem
Susan John-Richards: Very easy, Michael, log in ICJ website and check the Convention of War Crimes…
Susan John-Richards: Arab countries hate each other even since, and now the whole region on fire….
Susan John-Richards: Michael Ah no if you were a real Jew, you spread peace and love and help as we were asked to do so…..
Middle Class Warrior: Consensus Israel committing war crimes [this tweet included a link to an article at Mondoweiss, an extreme anti-Israel (and often anti-Semitic) website that I won’t link to here]
Susan John-Richards: True the first Zionist meeting took place in 1897 where they made the first plan…
Susan John-Richards: Balfour declaration was the first cheat in Palestine’s history…
Middle Class Warrior: Israel committing war crimes shelling civilians http://t.co/ZbJGXUWBXn
Susan John-Richards: How true is that Warrior…
Middle Class Warrior: Israel committing war crimes willfully killing children http://t.co/Prd5Bufeaz
CyraH: Right. And the McMahon-Hussein correspondence is dated in 1915/1916 … 1/2
BrazenlyLiberal: There hd bn talk of creating a state even before that but not enough political will till 48
Middle Class Warrior: Being against War Crimes http://t.co/jQuMZzZPnb is NOT anti-Semitic, it’s being against #WarCrimes
CyraH: 2/2 And the Sykes-Picot Agreement is dated in 1916. http://t.co/MSYl4z6oLV
Susan John-Richards: Warrior, in reality that Palesteniens are observer state at UN, they quality to take Israel to Int’Criminal Court
CyraH: the plans were all already elaborated before 1948. a.o. http://t.co/MSYl4z6oLV
Susan John-Richards: I can’t understand they can’t take arguments,immediately say we are anti-semitic to shut us up. It Doesn’t work
Me: Walking out the door, but saw this tweet [the one that said “if you were a real Jew, you spread peace and love”]. If I was a “real Jew”? Really? https://t.co/nrCNZk8c9g [check out this link; it’s worth reading]
Me: And I’m sure you’re the person to decide if my Judaism is authentic or how “real Jews” should behave,
Middle Class Warrior: list of 12 “Massacres committed by Israel” http://t.co/V67bPZoJfT [Wikipedia article; for those who follow the conflict, they’ll recognize that Wikipedia has been the source of an enormous amount of controversy as articles regarding the Israel, Judaism, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have been subject to editing wars with each side endeavoring to make it’s own narrative the “truth”. Also worth noting that of the 12 “massacres” listed, 5 were during the 1948 War of Independence, 1 is from 1953, 3 are from 1956, and 1 is from 1970; the most recent “massacre” is 1996]
Jet (James E Tramel): I really don’t know, I know we are experts at creating freedom fighters/terrorist
Middle Class Warrior: well we know u r an apologist for war crimes [in response to my tweet to Susan John-Richards that said “I’m sure you’re the person to decide if my Judaism is authentic…”]
Susan John-Richards: Yes, really Michael if you were a real jew ….
Susan John-Richards: Bless you Jet, you do have a great heart that I am sure of ….
Estheramma: blame Palestinians who voted for Hamas majority after Israel withdrew from Gaza.
Me: When you question the authenticity of my Jewishness, only one adequate reply: Fuck you.
Jet (James E. Tramel): every attempt to solve this issue has failed, we now have the net Photos pull heart strg
Middle Class Warrior: don’t u have a bunch of war crimes to apologize for? [in response to my saying “fuck you” to Susan John-Richards].
BrazenlyLiberal: S-P didn’t actually estab a state. IAE, then when of it is irrelevant to right or wrong of it
Susan John-Richards: That is a rude reply, & being higher educated than you… I forgive you but u just insulted another Jew [in response to my saying “fuck you”]
zkstv: “Antisemitic” is a bunch of BS. Anti-zionist is more accurate. Jews are not the only Semitic people&Jews are not united…
Susan John-Richards: SO true Jet…
Susan John-Richards: Warrior, I guess not… too arrogant to admit forget apologising!!!!!!!
zksvt: … in the genocide of the Palestinians. Israel must be disarmed. Zionists are immoral, sociopathic killers.
Middle Class Warrior: Sure Israel can protect themselves, but all the #WarCrimes are bullshit
Susan John-Richards: :))))
Estheramma: who is pro war crimes? Who is pro terrorism & genicide?
Middle Class Warrior: Israel commits war crimes and ppl who deny support war crimes. #Logic
Middle Class Warrior: I’d say shelling innocent civilians is terrorism. As far as genocide, no, just land thiefs & oppressors
Susan John-Richards: As for me all I want of this world is PEACE, JUSTICE&LOVE. NO war crimes,no genocide. HUMANS r EQUAL
Middle Class Warrior: Israel minister on Israel killing innocent Palestinians claims its “self-genocide” on Palestinians part
[As you can see, I’d already left the thread by the time this picture was posted. When I saw it later, I wanted to respond, but elected not to re-engage as it seemed largely pointless given the way the dialogue had gone (and was still going). Nevertheless, I think it is critically important to understand why this “disappearing Palestine” series of maps, which has turned up all over the place in recent years, is completely bogus. It’s worth reading the post The maps of disappearing Palestine by Yaakov Lozowick, Israel’s State Archivist and author of (in my opinion) the best book on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Right to Exist: A Moral Defense of Israel's Wars.]
Estheramma: so ur saying Israel can defend itself but can’t retaliate or invade. Nice logic.
Susan John-Richards: Yes Warrior, that is exactly the situation now….
Tuxie’s Mom: Senate voted UNANIMOUSLY in favor of Israel. No, of course I didn’t bookmark link, rats.
..: its similar to what european settles did to native americans.
Estheramma: too bad most Palestinians don’t [in response to Susan John-Richard’s tweet about peace, justice & love]
Middle Class Warrior: So u r an apologist for war crimes… u vote for W too? [in response to Estheramma’s query regarding Israel’s ability to defend itself]
Robert McGrath: Time to make the connection between Zionist’s, Born Again Christians, Tea Partiers.
Susan John-Richards: I have never seen a country & a nation goes on a hunger strike till near diminishing
Middle Class Warrior: So refuse to give Palestinians their land back and blame them… jeezus…
Susan John-Richards: Now Worrier :Self-genocide” it is a unique expression I’ve never heard before????
Estheramma: no & no. Saying nobody is in favor of war crimes or terrorism except Hamas & their supporters.
Middle Class Warrior: Israel minister coined new term, self-genocide http://t.co/DHWiDQQfCE … as they kill scores of innocents
oriboricua: Are we surprised here? That’s usually what they do.
Estheramma: right, because supporting the only democracy in the region is just wacky…
Susan John-Richards: Not True all Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Jews & whole world want PEACE…
Middle Class Warrior: Well u better be telling Isreal, cuz THEY are committing war crimes as we tweet
CyraH: This kind of pics just gets tweeted by scum [in response to Estheramma’s tweet of the original Palestine Mandate and Transjordan]
oriboricua: And as far as that ridiculous bigoted meme about another state..hmmm..cheez whiz
Middle Class Warrior: clearly part of the problem and against THE solution.
Robert McGrath: Right and because we only look through the Judeo-Christian Lens it’s the only Democracy.
Susan John-Richards: where you got such a false map for God’s sake How sad
Middle Class Warrior: I’ve had it w/Israel proclaiming to be the victim, when they are the root cause
Estheramma: that is the fundamental question. Israel is damned if they do & if they don’t…
Susan John-Richards: oh pls give me a break about the Hamas & terrorism, U & all of us know how are the real terrorists
oriboricua: Neither am I. Have them duke it out instead of nuking it out…
Middle Class Warrior: No, Israel damns itself when it commits war crimes against children
oriboricua: That’s how riDONCulous it is.
woodswalked: wow! that is absolutely sickening.
Susan John-Richards: Are you sure you understand the term Democracy well????
Middle Class Warrior: Well remember to kill the women and children FIRST? How many Israelis have been killed my those missiles?
oriboricua: OOH SNAP!
Robert McGrath: Certainly as well as your opinion on it’s interpretation.
Susan John-Richards: Democracy for me is not linked to religion or nation, it a natural human development
oriboricua: Seriously a number? Let’s just run a tally and even eliminate more dignity for their families.
Estheramma: Hamas is a terrorist org.?
Susan John-Richards: I join you Warrior, I’ve had enough. I call it Crying Wolf… Kill & complain
woodswalked: [posted a link to Jewish Voice for Peace, which I refuse to link to; instead, please read this description of JVP from the Anti-Defamation League]
Middle Class Warrior: Israel killed 60 LAST NIGHT, vs how many Israelis in the last decade?
oriboricua: Oooh, touche, Mdme.
Stop Gun Insanity: its an endless cycle with both sides to blame maybe someone will wise up and say we aint playing anym
Susan John-Richards: YES, I am not a rubbot what ever Israel and US declare somebody a terrorist I have to believe
Robert McGrath: Explain why Democracy is so important, when it’s become such a Farce in this Country?
Estheramma: so when Germany attacked Russia & Russia suffered more casualties but won, they were the problem?
Middle Class Warrior: If Israel were what it claims(civilized 1st word) it would stop the cycle, but they are barbaric
LunaticFringer: Great graph. Sobering, too.
Annie: Israel should stay the hell in Israel Stop taking Palestinian homes,land,freedom,livelihoods and lives.
Middle Class Warrior: No, i’m saying Israel goes for horrendous overkill and escalates the problem
Estheramma: do u? Why don’t u ask minorities, LGBT in Muslim countries.
Susan John-Richards: Democracey for me is a continuous matter,not only election. It’s justice to all
Susan John-Richards: Yeh right now u hiding behind minorities, all lived in harmony until western interest
oriboricua: Well wait a moment, I’m sorry that dates to WW2. And the US has been in how many conflicts since?
Estheramma: as I have show, Israel has tried numerous times to stop the cycle. Other side not interested.
RegimeChangeVictoria: we do the same thing, what do you think ‘droning’ weddings earns us? Manufacturing enemies?
Stop Gun Insanity: hell we in the US aren’t civilized enough to keep from starting wars
Robert McGrath: Until about 2 yrs. ago LGBT equality was only fantasy here, how about the way Africans are treated there ?
oriboricua: Dude, you are cool and collected.
Estheramma: have u been to the Middle East?
oriboricua: How is relevant to Palestine exactly? Our gov’t sides with Israel.
Middle Class Warrior: Defend this http://t.co/Cl2AQt5KOn #Overkill is terrorism
Susan John-Richards: I said it before humans generally have no prejudice Sadly it is the corrupt Government. LGBT are like any human
Middle Class Warrior: :-) pisses em off ;-)
Robert McGrath: Do I have to know what Insulins made from to know it works?
RegimeChangeVictoria: u can war monger if you like, i think its the top of Ignorance to drop bombs on ppl
oriborica: You are a scholar and a gentleman.
Susan John-Richards: I lived 26 years in the Middle East
oriboruca: Considering you don’t where I stand, I’m laughing.
Middle Class Warrior: so u defend Israel doing so?
RegimeChangeVictoria: good to hear, this world has enough war mongers already
RegimeChangeVictoria: not one bit
Middle Class Warrior: i’ll cop to the 1st part,but not 2nd ;-)
oriboricua: Dude, let’s read the headlines first before you throw those stones
Estheramma: u obviously live in la la land. Enjoy ur delusional fantasies. Cheers.
oriboricua: Better than Mr. holier than thou British Columbia
John Aiken: Israel should start moving its borders back into Israel and out of Palestine, that would be a start
Robert McGrath: Lived here 54 years and know it’s far from what it could be except for greed of the 1%
Susan John-Richards: exactly the greed of the 1%
Estheramma: r u referring to the Ethiopians in Israel?
DSP: Israel has the technology.
John Aiken: True, it would get back to land grabbing instead
Middle Class Warrior: And how many Israelis killed by those rockets ZERO
Robert McGrath: Democracy based on the Greek model, not Born Again Tea Party.
Estheramma: what –> [Susan John-Richards & Middle Class Warrior] expect from Israel: “that’s what they expect… just lay down and die my friend…..”
Middle Class Warrior: they bitch about Rockets that ave killed NO ONE & use for excuse to slaughter innocents then proclaims victim-hood
Robert McGrath: All African immigrants, Ethiopians consider themselves Jews.
Susan John-Richards: The hoffiyinig fact that Israelies count one death as 1000 Palestineies
Estheramma: –> [Susan John Richards & Middle Class Warrior] prefer to ignore this fact & instead define terrorism on body count [responding to my tweet about blockage being imposed to prevent influx of weapons]
Todd Selle: May this dream, above all others, come true. It is my vision as well.
Middle Class Warrior: So being anti #WarCrimes means i think Israel shouldn’t defend itself???? U r damaging your cause
Susan John-Richards: We all originate from Africa Scientifically… therefore we are the same people.. born, hurt, & die same way…
Middle Class Warrior: No, i’m anti #WarCrimes. Israel needs to stop committing them.
Susan John-Richards: I wish so Sir, We desperate need to embrace our humanity…
Middle Class Warrior: then expect to be treated like they are civilized…
Estheramma: Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.
Middle Class Warrior: Plenty enough blame to go around on both sides for the cycle of violence. BUT Israel IS root cause
Larry K: They may have after leaving Gaza if only Gaza hadnt become a storage & staging ground for missiles.
Slim Mirokujin: Should probably check out @This_Is_Israel [a parody account with a bio that uses a false quote from David Ben Gurion to help smear Israel] if he/she thinks IDF is blameless.
CyraH: They have created an open air prison of Gaza, and the civilians (!) are trapped.
Ivan G. Goldman: If you believe a people’s existence can be root cause of conflict apparently you think solution is mass suicide in Israel.
Annie: Which is shrinking as Israeli ‘settlers’ come in, mow down Palestinian homes &replace them w/Israeli settlements
Middle Class Warrior: It’s not the ppls existence it’s a hostile militaristic land-grab and oppression by the gov’t
Estheramma: –> both sides are barbaric but Israel deserves blame cuz they’re winning.
TodaysComments: Western gov’ts ignoring the overwhelming force on one side. Hell They supplied it!
Middle Class Warrior: No, both sides deserve blame for the cycle of violence, but Israel IS root cause.
Estheramma: so u’ve never been to the region but confident u know better than someone who has…
Bi-polar bear: Germany was one of the world’s most powerful states at the time, Palestinians don’t even have a state. How can you equate the 2? [in response to the tweet featuring the Bill Maher image]
Middle Class Warrior: lady u ask had been there decades. and views line u with mine just fine. facts r facts
Ivan G. Goldman: Poland expelled Germans, Russians expelled Poles, Arab countries expelled Jews. You seem fixated on one group. Why?
Middle Class Warrior: cuz that is a current topic, duh
Middle Class Warrior: We all know Jews have had a terrible history, but that does not give Israel the right to now treat Palestinians like they were
Robert McGrath: I’ve lived here for 54 years and still can’t make any sense, please,+ ur expert after 24?
GET REAL TWEETS: Israel is wrong for their actions. No peace with no RELIGIOUS FREEDOM!!! Period.
Estheramma: A. Most “Palestinians” were exiled from Jordan. B. perhaps they would if they didn’t elect terrorists & stop killing Israelis.
GET REAL TWEETS: The root of these sick wars is based on religion and sub root is land. We can’t fix that, only they can.
Susan John-Richards: I would say it is been over 65 years of suffering &the tragedy for Palistine goes on.
Middle Class Warrior: Root cause is Israel being created out of Palestinian land… and effing them over
Ivan G. Goldman: 1949 saw violent exchange of populations. Hundreds of thousands of Jews expelled by Arab countries. Check it out.
GET REAL TWEETS: That too. Using religion as a tool for the reasons of land entitlement. So much wrong.
Susan John-Richards: One side has a mighty military power providing the world with drones,£1.26b only 2 UK
Middle Class Warrior: Israel is a land grab and of course the previous residents are PISSED, and rightly so
GET REAL TWEETS: I say we need to stop funding and aiding the blood bath. The best help we can give is to stop helping ISRAEL.
Estheramma: try speaking English please. [directed at Middle Class Warrior in response to his tweet that began “lady u ask…”]
Jeff Kreisberg: Better read up on your Old Testament my friend.
Estheramma: where NJ?
Middle Class Warrior: HEAR HEAR!!! Part of what makes me so disgusted is we help them slaughter innocents. Enough killing Muslims
Susan John-Roberts: Do u main u lived 54 yrs in ME or Africa? I lived over 26 in ME
amer husain: It’s neither mere religion nor land. It’s about strategic locationing by an imperial force.
Middle Class Warrior: That’s like saying the Aztecs can reclaim Texas. Jews were gone 2k years.
GET REAL TWEETS: We help them all the time. Damn shame, our tax $ used for blood baths of kids. #HYPOCRISY
GET REAL TWEETS: What are you implying Jeff? Break it down for me.
Robert McGrath: Have u been to the Ukraine,Africa,China? Being there and being 1 of them, little diff.
Bart Stewart: What did that land amount to before the Jews came in and made something of it?
Middle Class Warrior: It was THEIR land to do with as they please and they were booted off of it.
Robert McGrath: Next to NY.
Robert McGrath: Are you Israeli living in NY?
Jeff Kreisberg: For fucks sake! You talk out of both sides of your mouth. eatshotanddie
amer husain: That is the crux of the problem. The original sin if I might borrow a phrase.
Robert McGrath: What are you an Expert with the Wilson Institute?
Bi-polar bear: So you’re saying: don’t vote for such and such in a democratic election or else! I see Israel is a beacon of democracy in ME
Jeff Kreisberg: You’ve heard of the Isrealites? #twelvetribes
Susan John-Richards: if it is for me then its Chatham …
Bart Stewart: It was mostly desert before. Not it is a major economy. And this is a TINY patch of land!
GET REAL TWEETS: Yep I have.
Middle Class Warrior: so what? its also the cause of ME hatred of the west… and it was THEIR LAND
GET REAL TWEETS: You can’t bring the 12 tribes into this. We free to believe what we want but war and religion =
GET REAL TWEETS: hell on Earth.
amer husain: Your conclusion and analysis captures it all. It is where the solution begins.
Robyn Koerschner: Unfortunately, these land wars remind me of US history. I wish there was a Peaceful solution.
GET REAL TWEETS: The only solution is for them to make religious freedom a rule and for us to stop aiding them.
GET REAL TWEETS: We can wish but action is better.
Bart Stewart: Modern Israel is a fact of life. It’s not going away. It need not expand.
Bart Stewart: Religious nuts risk global conflagration over a strip of land the size of NJ.
amer husain: And yet it has been expanding by building on occupied lands. And will continue.
amer husain: It’s where the natural gas resources are. You think Zionism is about Judaism?
Jumpalong Jayne: If the army came & rousted you from your home would you not fight back with whatever you have?
Jumpalong Jayne: How about rebuilding in the country they already lived in instead of giving them someone else’s land.
Susan John-Richards: Gaza people entitled to defend themselves… legitimately.
Susan John-Richards: The land belongs to the Palestine and no one else. GB had no right to give land it never owned
Bart Stewart: You think it’s all about natural gas? With the oceans of oil the Arabs have?
Robyn Koerschner: I like the idea of religious freedom.
amer husain: the Israelis don’t [in response to Robyn Koerschner’s liking the idea of religious freedom].
amer husain: They want that strip and they will eventually kill every Palestinian for it.
GET REAL TWEETS: It will help.
GET REAL TWEETS: They are wrong as ever.
Ivan G. Goldman: Vast majority of Palestinian families showed up after Jewish immigration created an economy.
Have a GREEN YEAR!: #Israel has SUCKED $1 TRILLION+ from USA teat. Time 2 WEAN the #MOOCHERS.
Have a GREEN YEAR!: #Israel #Palestine
Estheramma: They voted for Hamas who fire rockets at Israel from hospitals, schools etc but in ur head they’re victims
Estheramma: not Israeli, but Jewish.
Robert McGrath: Many Israelis non-Jewish?
Estheramma: 25% http://t.co/nFLxF2xYCV
Jet (James E Tramel): Use to watch BB on the News Hour back in the 80’s liked the guy, he is smart, like many others he gotten extreme
Middle Class Warrior: Israel is the WWIII pilot light.
Middle Class Warrior: I can understand a penned in ppl fighting back, but I can NOT understand penning ppl in
Middle Class Warrior: I like the idea of freedom from religion
Cyndee Guerraa: Me too, also Republicans from Vaginas
Middle Class Warrior: Palestinians ‘left’ cuz Israel took their land and kicked them out of it
CyraH: UN Report on Palestine Military Occupation, APARTHEID, Torture: http://t.co/rT2mSu25J8 [this report was prepared by Richard Falk, who has claimed American complicity in 9/11, who has been criticized by the UN Secretary General, and who has posted vicious anti-Semitic cartoons on his personal blog; the linked report was condemned by the United States]
TodaysComments: Total agreement. Well put.
Andre: UN: Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel. http://t.co/0uwUrnszS1 [Here are 8 of the 18 members of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child: Ghana, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Tunisia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Malaysia]
Middle Class Warrior: Too true!! If u don’t kiss israel’s ass and excuse their #WarCrimes u must be anti-Semitic…
Semaj: one wonders if they can just coexist after all the land isn’t going anywhere
Scone_Mason: Putin wants in on it too
amer husain: Could be set off anytime.
Jumpalong Jayne: Exactly. Exactly. I was “trying” to be rhetorical.
oriboricua: Well Slim, that’s assuming she won’t be in denial.
Estheramma: <—trust a parody account instead of facts reality [responding to Slim Mirokujin’s suggestion to view the This_Is_Israel offensive parody account]
Estheramma: some are more blameless than others and some are just clueless.
Slim Mirokujin: U understand what’s being parodied, right? Chart is red herring/irrelevant to topic.
Slim Mirokujin: We found your cartoon was clueless indeed as IDF has done the same.
Estheramma: Less than 14 Million Jews & 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world.
Slim Mirokujin: Relevance to the discussion? Topic is Palestinians & Israelis.
Estheramma: u said [link to “We found your cartoon was clueless indeed as IDF has done the same] but now irrelevant huh?
Slim Mirokujin: Ur point abt MuslimvsJewish world population was irrelevant. Keep up
oriboricua: ‘ur sardonic comments illustrate that the veracity of your sources is questionable [directed at Estheramma]
oriboricua: Is ignorance blissful for you? שקרים #shalom [the Hebrew word included in this tweet translates to “lies”]
GET REAL TWEETS: Along with RUSSIA , SYRIA, IRAQ, IRAN.
Estheramma: Sunni, Shia, Kurds kill each other but only relevant when killed by Jews. Got it
Slim Mirokujin: Nope. Your continued strawman & smoke screen tactics are boring, however. #Yawn
Estheramma: yes, uve made it clear u prefer parody to facts. Sorry u to bore u w/truth.
Slim Mirokujin: Did no such thing. When u can stay on topic,join the rest of the adults @ the table.
Estheramma: aww is the little gamer getting cranky? Maybe u should play Donkey Kong instead
Sliim Mirokujin: Nah. Just tired of ppl being obtuse w/ red herrings & pettiness. But hey, troll on.
Middle Class Warrior: “All we are saying is give #WarCrimes a chance” [in response to Estheramma]
Estheramma: Support Hamas terrorists –> [linking to Middle Class Warrior’s “give #WarCrimes a chance” tweet]
And finally that primary thread ended (at least for now). Sadly, numerous side threads developed as the main conversation progressed, and the tone in those was about the same, if not worse. And often it was much, much worse. I frequently wanted to re-join the “conversation” — especially when I saw various lies or misstatements of fact or history, when links to certain documents were posted, or when outrageous statements or claims were made and went essentially unchallenged — but I realized that nothing of value would come from doing so. So I read my book instead.
Before leaving this (ridiculously long post), I do, however, want to call attention to a few other tweets in some of those other threads. For example, over the next day or so, Middle Class Warrior tweeted the following (or variations) numerous times:
Middle Class Warrior: Hamas rockets have killed ZERO and Israel kills the women and children 1st
In other words, Israel is wrong to defend itself because Israel’s defensive precautions have prevented Hamas rockets from killing Israeli civilians and despite the evidence to the contrary, Middle Class Warrior claims that Israel is intentionally targeting Palestinian women and children. He also ignores that the rockets have killed Israelis (and ironically and tragically, one of those killed was a Bedouin).
Even worse than that, though was this tweet:
Middle Class Warrior: Ben-Gurion: We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation… cutting of all social services 2 rid…its Arab population
“Wow!” I hear you say, “that’s awful!” And it is. Except for one small little thing: It’s a fabricated quote that can’t be traced to Ben Gurion’s writings. David Ben Gurion never said it. However, you’ll find that quote used on many anti-Israel and anti-Semitic websites and used by “revisionist” historians who desire to tear down Israel and Zionism.
There was one additional tweet that I really wanted to share, but I can’t seem to find it (perhaps it was deleted). Anyway, the author of that tweet claimed (and I’m paraphrasing), that the fighting in Gaza was just a continuation of the Jewish quest for money described and ordered in the Bible. Or something like that. Seriously.
And there is more. Much, much more. But I’ll spare you.
The whole experience left me both exhausted and frustrated.It depressed me that so many people were so willing to jump on the bandwagon and accuse Israel of war crimes and use the sort of language that I encountered. And all of that with virtually no criticism of Hamas or terrorists. It also depressed me that no one was really willing to engage in discussion (and I suppose, after a bit, I wasn’t either, though I tried). And to be called an apologist for war crimes when nothing that I said came even close… One of the current strategies by the anti-Israel crown (and anti-Semites) is to claim that Jews, Israelis, and Zionists try to “shut down” conversation by claiming that any criticism of Israel is inherently anti-Semitic. You can see that dynamic at work here.
I will readily acknowledge that I wasn’t at the top of my game. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to work through many of the issues (especially complex ones) in this sort of forum. First, a complex issue or detailed point is difficult to make in 140 characters. Add to that the difficulty of keeping separate different discussion threads and points. Moreover, when there are numerous people tweeting from the “other side” it can be difficult just to keep up. Thus, certain points that perhaps I should have responded to were allowed to go unanswered. Other points, I was probably not as eloquent as I’d have liked (especially in 140 characters).
Moreover, having a discussion with someone who is willing to engage and dialogue is one thing; but trying to have an intelligent discussion about complex and emotional issues with people who are not interested in the discussion and who would rather simply hurl invectives is … well, I guess pointless. Just as the Israelis have no real partner with whom to discuss peace, I found that I had nobody really interested in a good faith discussion of issues.
Anyway, let’s play a little game: See if you can identify all of the historical inaccuracies, bigoted statements, and places where criticism of Israel crosses over into anti-Semitism. See if you can spot the logical fallacies from Middle Class Warrior and his minions. See if you can spot any place where I defended or apologized for war crimes or where I said anything critical about the Palestinian people as opposed to Hamas or terrorists. See if you can spot any time when any of Israel’s critics called out war crimes by Hamas or did anything more than “not condone” Hamas’ actions or call them “barbaric”. See if you can spot examples of the anti-Israel crowd doing what they accuse Israel’s supporters of doing by defending Hamas’ war crimes. See if you can spot the times that the cry of “don’t play the anti-Semitism card” was used to try to silence support for Israel.
There is one more component (yeah, I know…) of the all of this that I do want to note. As I mentioned, after these exchanges, I was exhausted and depressed. And as I read other posts on Twitter, and other articles posted around the Internet, my depression deepened. War in Israel, the death of Israelis, and the death of innocent Palestinians bothers me. But so does anti-Semitism. So do vicious, unfair attacks on Israel and/or the Jewish people. On Monday morning, I sent the following tweets to Yaakov Lozowick (who, as I mentioned above, is the author of a terrific book on the conflict):
Me: Serious query: How do you handle the horrific anti-Semitism that has become so prevalent? Long thread on Twitter this…
Me: … morning was really depressing?
But before Lozowick could respond, Middle Class Warrior jumped in, and the “discussion” is somewhat enlightening (I’ve omitted extraneous tweets):
Middle Class Warrior: Antisemitism???? You mean anti- #WarCrimes, that is what ppl are pissd about. The escalation and slaughtering
Middle Class Warrior: So unless one supports #WarCrimes http://t.co/n9kkvwkZc7 one is anti-Semitic? [again, this is the report by Richard Falk that I discussed above]
Middle Class Warrior: Defend this http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/106714.aspx [the report from the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child that I discussed above]
LightSnowOvernight: old trick . Glad you didn’t fall for it. War crimes.
yaacov lozowick: the determination to single out Isr as a war criminal in context of this decade is itself antisemitism.
Middle Class Warrior: Take the time to read UN report on #Israel Occupation, Apartheid, Torture http://t.co/nNquf2NgNd [again, the report from Richard Falk]
Middle Class Warrior: ??? u sound confused, read this http://t.co/nNquf2NgNd [same report] and u will see y the focus on Israel
yaacov lozowick: I assure you I’m vastly better informed than U on this. I’m mostly offline next few hours. Can talk later.
Middle Class Warrior: No thanks
yaacov lozowick: I understand. You wouldn’t want to be confused with facts. Have a good day.
Middle Class Warrior: no, just don’t want smoke blow up my ass by a war crimes apologist
yaacov lozowick: invective is a sign of insecurity or fuddled thinking or both.
Middle Class Warrior: Debunk UN: Occupation, Apartheid, Torture, Violations “Deliberate, Organised,&Instituionalized” http://t.co/nNquf2NgNd [same Falk report]
Middle Class Warrior: as is your arrogance
yaacov lozowick: nah. Just confident of my facts. Going offline now.
Middle Class Warrior: NO facts justify human rights abuses and war crimes, you must mean ‘facts’.
So Israel’s State Archivist offers to discuss issues with Middle Class Warrior and is met with rejection, allegations of being a “war crimes apologist”, and the claim that any facts that Lozowick might bring to the discussion aren’t worthy of consideration because they wouldn’t be true. To me, the views that Middle Class Warrior expresses in this discussion demonstrate just how little regard for learning, understanding, and dialoguing some people really have. Minds are made up, based on fact or fiction, and no rational discussion is worthwhile. Oddly enough, that sounds a lot like the accusations that Middle Class Warrior tends to level at those on the right when discussing domestic issues. But his own hatred, and yes, I’m going to call it hatred, has blinded him to the false reality that he’s created for himself. He bristles and claims that failure to agree with Israel apparently renders one an anti-Semite, yet he sees no contradiction or hypocrisy in claiming that someone who supports Israel is an apologist for war crimes.
Here is my takeaway: First, I probably shouldn’t have engaged. I should have known that there was no point in trying to have a rational discussion. Second, it was probably a poor decision to be snarky or sarcastic in some of my responses. That doesn’t necessarily translate well on Twitter. Most importantly, I may have — repeat may have — jumped the gun a bit with my “go back to Auschwitz” comment; but at the time and with everything that I was reading, statements like Israel’s “existence is the root cause of the violence” sounded an awful like like denying Israel’s right to exist. And that is an anti-Semitic (or Jew hating) argument.
My other takeaway is that my allies on virtually all social and most economic issues have, in many cases, completely lost it on the subject of Israel. Once again, criticism of Israel is fine. I do it all the time (boy you should hear some of the private discussions that I engage in…). But the scope and nature of the criticism, especially without any real corresponding criticism of anyone else (and here, I don’t just mean Hamas or Palestinians!), really … well, I’m not sure of the word I’m looking for. Some sort of mix of depression and anger, I guess.
But then late last night I read this: I’m Done Apologizing for Israel by Rabbi Menachem Creditor:
So, when it comes to Israel, many of those with whom I engage in social reform expect me to react to Israel’s military actions in Gaza with scorn and criticism. To be fair, there are times when I do. My Zionism demands I speak out on behalf of the Israel that remains, in my world-view, the most ambitious project-in-process of the Jewish People. Whereas Israel’s 66 short years have witnessed strength and resilience that have redefined Jewish identity in profound ways, the global Jewish family remains interwoven with Israel.
My response has changed these last few weeks, in which three Jewish teens were murdered by Arab terrorists and Palestinians celebrated by distributing sweets to children and an Arab teen was murdered by Jewish terrorists and the Jewish world condemned the hatred. I am done trying to apologetically explain Jewish morality. I am done apologizing for my own Jewish existence.
Some will call this needless hyperbole. But, having watched in this last week anti-Semitic “die-ins” in Boston, violent assaults against Jews in Los Angeles and Antwerp, and an almost pogrom at a synagogue in Paris, I’m done mincing my own words.
We will do what we must to protect our people. We have that right. We are not less deserving of life and quiet than anyone else.
No more apologies.
And I felt much better. (Please go read Rabbi Creditor’s whole post.)
*I said above that I’d discuss Susan John-Richards in a bit more detail. Apparently, she is a former elected councilor in the United Kingdom (according to a friend, that’s a local office of some sort). She was a member of the conservative party. Apparently, she was passed over for promotion within the party and so quit. She alleged that she was passed over because she was a woman. However, in one of the side Twitter threads that developed along with that posted above, she told Estheramma that she was really passed over because she was half-Jewish (and that members of the UK’s conservative party don’t like Jews when behind the shelter of closed doors). John-Richards also said that she was a conservative until she learned what conservatism meant at which point she became a socialist. She also states in that other thread that she is an atheist, yet she took it upon herself to question the authenticity of my Jewishness when she stated, essentially, that by supporting Israel, I must not be a “real Jew”. And when I gave her a chance to walk that back, she doubled down on her prior accusation.
John-Richards and Estheramma continued to … um … discuss things further in another thread. Let’s just say that it got heated. But one post from John-Richards put everything into perspective.
Susan John-Richards: The Genocide Of The People Of Gaza:Is THIS Not A War Crime?Israel Targeting Hospitals In Gaza! [with a link to be discussed below]
The link included with John-Richards’ tweet is to a blog called Northerntruthseeker. I won’t include a link to that blog. Why not? And why do I think that it puts the views of John-Richards into perspective? Here are a few excerpts from the profile of the author of Northerntruthseeker:
Interests: Defeating the World Criminal Jewish Empire and ending their dream of the eventual enslavement of the Human Race…
Favorite Books: The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, The Thirteenth Tribe (Koestler), The Synagogue of Satan (Andrew Carrington Hitchcock), We Never Went To The Moon (Bill Kaysing), NASA Mooned America (Ralph Rene) …
[For those who are unaware, The Thirteenth Tribe is a book often used by anti-Semites to try to demonstrate that modern Jews have no historical ties to the land of Israel.]
The blog also includes a listing of the “best sites” for exposing the truth about Israel’s involvement with 9/11 and that the moon landings were a hoax. You get the picture.
Anyway, one has to wonder why John-Richards would be linking to that sort of blog. For that matter, why would she even be aware of that sort of blog?
So, when reading and thinking about John-Richards’ views about Israeli “war crimes” or history, it might be worth noting that she may be getting some of her information from a 9/11 “truther” who wants to defeat the “World Criminal Jewish Empire”. I can only imagine what her other sources of information might be.
Labels: Anti-Semitism, Civility, Israel, Religion, Terrorism